A mother in torment. It’s twenty years since the 9-11 attacks. The mother of an admitted Al Qaeda would-be terrorist –Zacarias Moussaoui, jailed for life in the USA — speaks of her pain and his guilt.

10 September 2021 By Paul Martin

15m10 – 15m35Was the father of his girlfriend racist? Yes, the father said to Zacarias, he had seen them in a doorway near the house, with Fanny, doing like all young people do, like the young people we saw earlier [gestures] and he said « Hey you, don’t think that you’ll ever be welcome in my home ». That was the first rebuff he had in his life, Zacarias.
16m07Yes, it is not just at the moment, this has been going on for 4 years now ; and it is very hard. Recently it is very hard, the pressure of the lawyers on me to not say this, to not say that, not to speak to the press etc…
16m59 – 17m40The Prosecutor wanted to find someone guilty, he wanted a death sentence to show the American people that he had found someone, that he had done his job properly, whereas there is nothing in the file against Zacarias that justifies either the death penalty or a life sentence. They are preparing the ground to give him a life sentence because they have found nothing that justifies either of the two sentences which are the worst things that could possibly be done to anyone.
18m14Er, for me, at the moment, my son, I saw him, he is completely drugged, he is bloated, he is wearing an electric belt around his waist,….and therefore for him, seeing as he is accused of being the 21st member, to have prepared [the attacks], to be responsible for the attacks, although they have no proof, there is nothing which justifies all this, its hearsay, and words, which have no sense, on paper there is nothing at all, my son said “ you want my scalp” and the Prosecutor replied “ yes”, so he said “take a pen and I will tell you everything you want” and it is the Prosecutor who wrote out the statement and Zacarias just signed it at the end.

End of 1st section

 For me personally, I went to Washington on the 4th and I stayed until the 13th, and the first day that I went to court was the worst day of my life, it’s something that I can’t write, that I can’t say [choked] to see Zacarias with an electric belt at his waist, to see him completely drugged, bloated. I didn’t go back in the afternoon because I was in no fit state having seen all that. The next day, I went back and I stayed for 4 days, and then I went to New York with the families of the victims [of 9/11] and I understood that the American people are not in agreement with the American govt because the people want to see the proof. It is not enough to choose a name and to say that he is guilty and that’s it. They want the proof of what he is being accused of, and when the Prosecutor says it is a state secret, the people say it is the state lying, that behind all that the truth is hidden and they want to see the truth
2.11They need someone to be guilty, they have found someone and as he will not say sorry for things he has not done – he said ‘I’m not going to say sorry for things which are not true. I am an Islamist but I have never committed a crime anywhere’, but the Prosecutor needs a guilty party, he needs to show that he has done something…and the worst punishment that can be given is to be sentenced to life imprisonment. (2.33) The death penalty – we’re all going to die one day. But to be sentenced to life imprisonment for something that we have not done. It’s horrible. (2.49)
4.09I want him to be judged for what he has done. That’s all. If he has done something wrong, that it be proven and that he is judged for what he did and not because he is an Arab, because he is educated, that’s all. I don’t choose which sentence he receives. I choose justice. But justice is blind.  (4.40)
5.32It isn’t a change. Don’t forget that it was the racism of everyday life that led Zacarias to listen to people, to the Islamists, The injustices on a daily basis, the lack of a father, and all of this, now they say it loudly and clearly. Now he is in prison and he knows that nothing worse could happen to him, he says what he feels like saying, without holding back, without beating around the bush, he says what he has got to say: seeing as all is lost, at least I can say what I think. (6.27) But to say that he is going to destroy aeroplanes or destroy towers is not true, because he was in prison 4 weeks almost before the attacks and they accuse him of not telling them the truth when he was arrested. How can he tell the truth about something which doesn’t exist (6.45). In those movements [Al Qaida], do you really think that in such a group they are going to tell all and sundry that there is going to be an attack. (6.53) Even, what’s his name, Clinton and George Bush, they knew that there were things that weren’t right, they did nothing, they expect my son, Zacarias Moussaoui to tell them what is going to happen. No that is just excuses to get the scalp of Zacarias. He said I’ve got no chance, I’ll never get out of here unless I plead guilty, so he pleaded guilty.(7.19) He is sick of being accused of things that he hasn’t done.
9.00Hang on, he said all that after 3 ½   years of isolation, 3 ½ years of being locked up, after 3 ½   years of being accused of rubbish, and then he said that. But I have a letter from him where he says “Mum, I’ve got nothing to do with 9/11. I didn’t do anything, trust me, I didn’t do anything” So after 3 years anybody would confess to anything to get out of there. As he said himself “I want to get out of here” Obviously I am not in agreement with the movement to which my son belonged, I am not in agreement with the Islamists. I am a Muslim but it stops there (9.47) …The movement that my son joined, a worldwide movement of instruction, against people who have never done anything wrong, when I speak with Zacarias, when we talk about all this he says to me “are you blind mum, can you not see what the Americans do across the whole world? Do you not see that they are in the process of destroying the entire world, and especially the Arab world ?”.(10.22) And that, it’s true. You can’t say no. You can’t be a hypocrite, after all, it’s the truth. The Americans have caused damage across the entire world, and especially in Muslim countries. It’s true. When you speak of Palestine, Chechnya, all of that, its true, but I would have preferred that he defend these causes with writing, not with violence, not with all that is happening in the world.(10.49) But it is not me that decides. It’s not me. It’s him. He is responsible for his actions. He is a man, he is not a child. He is not a teenager. I am not going to grab him, ground him, smack him. But these questions, they should be asked of him. Why he did that ? I am against what he got himself into, my son.  I’m against that. The proof – I went to see the families of the victims and we have some contact, we send each other emails…Its not my idea, I’m unhappy because of all this. He is a man. I can’t get involved in his life (11.31) I can’t tell him what to do, what not to do. I am unhappy that it came to this, because this unhappiness has affected all the family. It hasn’t only affected him. Everyone is affected. Me, my children, my grand children.(11.50)
12.40If you are a good Muslim, a good Christian, you should never want to destroy the other. Be it a Jew,  Muslim, a Christian, normally religion is for peace and love and the respect of the other. But all extremists are very dangerous for our society, so that we can live together.
13.48When they were young, there were 4 children, I was on my own with them, but we talked about everything. When we talked about religion, about respecting parents because for us, the Arabs, parents are sacred, something untouchable, they always replied, the boys, “we are not in Morocco, we are French, we live in France, what you’re telling us has nothing to do with us” They never wanted to listen to me. They always said that they were French, that this didn’t concern them – neither the religion, nor Moroccan customs, nor Arabic customs – had nothing to do with them. I never wanted to force them, nor force it on them. I spoke to them, if they wanted to listen to me, they did so, and if not, they didn’t. I was on my own, I had 8 hours of work to do each day and I had to be mum and dad, and it was not easy (14.55)
15.23Tell him, when they watched the TV they always wanted to watch American films, action films etc. I never hassled them about watching American films. I wanted…I raised them secularly, and wanted each of them to do what they chose with their lives. If they chose to remain without religion, I never forced them otherwise, I never wanted to force them. I was forced at 14 years old. I had to marry someone that I didn’t know and didn’t love, and that I never wanted to repeat with my own children. (16.00) Maybe they missed having a father. You know, you can’t replace the father or the mother. Those are two things which can never be replaced. If the father is missing, if there is something missing, I am like all mothers, like all parents. If you can show me a parent which is perfect then I would like to see it. I know plenty of couples who are together but who still have problems with their children. (16.30) On my own I did what I could, with what I had. Maybe it wasn’t the mother they needed but I never asked to have 4 children either. (16.41) (16.57) I  do not feel guilty about anything. Not at all. As I said, I did my best, I did what I could. As for the rest, there is also the people you associate with, the daily life, the racism, lots of things which…it’s not only the mother, or the father.  Mohammad Atta and the 19 people who died in the towers, they weren’t poor people, they weren’t delinquents, they were people from good parents, lawyers, managers. What pushed them to become suicide bombers ? I have no idea. I can not be inside the head of my son, nor the head of those who [did it]. I have no idea. (17.50) All I know is that I was never violent to my children. I love them, that’s all.
18.41I have no idea. My son was 28 when he became an extremist. So I don’t see the link.
19.00Maybe there was something that stayed with him, in the same way as when they say to him ‘dirty black, dirty Arab, go back to where you came from” when we say to him “these people, they ask for everything but they are capable of nothing”. All that I have lived through with him. At the moment it is hard for me, at the moment. I am living the same racism that my son experienced. Before I was not affected by it, because I was a civil servant, I lived in an area where I was protected. But now, people attack me, with their looks, their nastiness, their ignorance, lots of things.(19.45)
20.33Exactly, he had things to say, he liked to tell jokes and have fun, he smoked dope, he went to night clubs despite being refused entry, he came back 2 hours later because he hadn’t been allowed in. It’s true. You hear in France that foreigners should be integrated. He and his brother said “integrate myself into what ? I am French, I was born in France, I don’t even know how to speak Arabic. They tell me to integrate. Integrate into what ? What do you want me to do” he said. And it’s true, he’s right. We integrate people who don’t know how to live, who live in another world, but when we live like everyone else, we’ve never had problems with the police or with the neighbours, and we are asked to integrate. To what ? To be submissive. We have to submit to be accepted ? That is the problem. (21.40)
22.05The question that the father wasn’t there, that maybe that had an effect on him, I find all that excuses which are a bit too easy. It doesn’t go to the core, to the root of the problem. Because, what is good for one is not necessarily good for another. Each person reacts differently and can be sensitive to things which do not affect others. For example, when the lawyers were rejected by my son, the first time, in 2002, and they didn’t know Zacarias, they didn’t know his life, they came to me, they frightened me, telling me my son was going to be sentenced to death for things he hasn’t done, we have to get him out of there, he didn’t do anything, we’re going to get him out of there. So I helped them. I showed them, I spoke to them, I told them everything, I talked about my life, my parents, my children’s lives, I spoke about everything, and at the last minute they asked me if I could say that “when the children were small, and I worked and they were left on their own…”. But these are false excuses. Why tell stories like that ? Why don’t we say exactly what we want ? Zacarias was never beaten by his father. He lived through violence when he was in my womb, because 2 ½ years later I left the father, but I do not think that this is the root cause of it all…because who has never seen violence at some point in their lives ? It is not because of that that we become extremists. It’s not true.(24.16) The lawyers told me to say it, that the mother was absent and the father violent ; it is easy to defend ; But that is too easy to defend, a case like that. There’s no need to have lawyers for something like that. I can do that. They know perfectly well that the Prosecutor has a person in his sights and they want me to implicate myself and say ‘yes, it’s true, the children were small, that I wasn’t there’. They told me to say that to the media.(24.47) I will not accept things that I haven’t done. No. I want the truth. Do you know what that means, the truth ? I accept the things that I have done. Zacarias also, he says “I am an Islamist but I have never done anything, anywhere.” But why does the American government want someone to be guilty? They want to tarnish the entire family in order to say that they won’t condemn him to a life sentence, that there are mitigating circumstances ; But it is not true. (25.18) The Prosecutor is fiddling things, as he did with the last witness statements that have been  rejected, and the Lawyers are fiddling things from the other side, trying to find mitigating circumstances when there aren’t any. Zacarias is a man, he wanted to be a soldier of Islam, at his age, at 28 years, and I think that at 28 a person is old enough to know what they want to do with their lives.
26.24It’s not that it could influence him to enter the Islamic movement. It caused him to become aggressive and to see things differently, compared to someone who was not affected by that [racism]. There is the problems with his girlfriend, problems at school, problems with his father, he had a tooth broken, he was called a Nigger, all of that accumulated, which formed a breach and the Islamists found a way of exploiting that breach. (27.03)
27.21At the time that it took place, I noticed it because he had changed. Before, when his girlfriend came to the house they would kiss, they would laugh and joke and tease each other. Then suddenly I felt that it wasn’t the same, they started to behave like an old married couple, there was no longer that joy of being together. And it is later that Jamilla, my daughter, told me. I said that I thought Zacarias had stopped laughing. And she told me what the father of his girlfriend had said. (28.10)
28.40Yes. Definitely, yes. It is whilst in England that he changed. It wasn’t the first year. It was in 1994 1995, in 1995 he was still, he wasn’t involved in that. I saw him in 1995, he was normal. It was in 1997 that I saw that he prayed (29.14)
30.17No, that only concerns Abd Samad. He wrote a book, he earned some money, that only concerns him. Because being a good or a bad Muslim has nothing to do with whether you were raised in it or not. There are Muslims who were raised in the religion and who have gone on to do other things, and they are those who were in the streets, left to their own devices who joined Islam. That has nothing to do with it. I have nothing to say regarding what he said in his book, that is his business . He wrote a book, he earned some money and that is his problem.   Anyway, if he was a real and true Muslim, a believer, he would never have written a book about his mother and his brother. (31.03)  I don’t see that it is my fault, because he didn’t grow up… I did, as I keep saying, what I could for my children. I worked, I couldn’t be the Imam, the priest, the mother, the father, and work and everything, I did what I could with what I had. (31.26) If they want to be Muslims it is up to them. I would never have tried to stop them if at 15, 16, they had taken a prayer mat and started to pray, I wouldn’t have stopped them. (31.38) I have never stopped anyone from doing what they wanted. These are excuses that they want. Mohammad Atta grew up with Islam, his mother and father prayed. All the 19 suicide bombers were all from families who practised the religion. So I don’t see the link. If I wasn’t there they would have said “the mother wasn’t there” that is what the lawyers say. They have to find an excuse that’s all. (32.11) For me the excuse is in the mind of the person. (32.14)
32.45Well first of all he wasn’t with me,  to see that he was changing or not. He came home in 1997 and stayed for 2 weeks with me.  I spoke with him, and I saw that he prayed, but he did not seem to be an extremist. It is 4 years later that I learned that he was extremist, 4 years later. (33.09)
33.26I told you earlier that he said, I said “ you should defend your cause with words” and that’s when he replied “do the Americans defend their cause in writing? They go and cause damage in other countries.” That response, it is only he who knows. I asked him and he answered “Mum, you don’t understand that the Americans, and even the Europeans, cause lots of damage in Muslim countries, they respect nothing’. I said that that was not a reason, it’s not because they do that that you should do it [use violence]. (34.14)
34.30Tell him (the interviewer), please, you shouldn’t ask me these questions because I don’t have the answers, for what is going on in my son’s head, what he lived through, what suffering he endured to bring him to such a point. He told me, my son, like that, he said “you, Mum, you’re a woman, and you did not have the same problems in your daily life as I had” That’s what he said, Zacarias, when I told him ‘I don’t agree with you  joining these movements’, he said “Mum, you don’t understand, I have lived a nightmare” Because I said to him “if one day you get out of prison you can come to France, I would like us to live in peace. “France, mum, I have suffered in France, and you can not imagine just how much I have suffered in France. (35.18)
36.00That is the problem with all these questions, I told you earlier, my son admitted this, he said that he would have taken part, 4 years later. Are we talking about the same thing, or are we talking about different things? When they arrested him he didn’t admit to anything, that he wanted to do this or that he wanted to do that. He confessed 4 years later because he had his reasons, he wanted to get out of there.(36.29) But, no, a number of people have asked me this question in a number of ways, but it is always the same. Zacarias did not do it, they have no proof that he would have done it, why do they want to condemn him, for his intention? Because he is going to do something? That’s rubbish (36.51)
37.19Well, I want to tell you something which is a bit surprising. I arrive in America, the families of the victims, they are more sensitive and more sincere, they understand things better than in Europe. In Europe everyone says to me “your son, he was going to do this and he was going to do that”. The families and the American people they say that they want to know where the proof of all this is. They say “no we don’t agree that he was going to do it, because no one has said what it was that he was going to do.” And there is the problem, the victims families’ are responsible for the words they use whereas in France, in England, in Belgium I am always asked ‘”what do you think of what your son was going to do”. (38.22) It’s ridiculous. It’s terrible. My son confessed four years later. Come on. Show me the proof and I will say sorry. But if there is no proof. They are just looking for someone to be guilty. I get the impression that the whole world is looking for someone to be found guilty, except for the victims families. (38.45) The victims’ families say that they have already experienced this in 1964 [sic], the couple of scientists who were accused of being spies. They sentenced them to death, and they say this is the same story.(39.03) Zacarias was in prison 3 weeks before for a problem with his papers, and now they want to pin the attacks on him. No, it is not possible. (39.17)
39.45Well, my life is destroyed. My heart is destroyed. And my morale is in pieces. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone. Because, I don’t have any proof that he was guilty of anything, it would have eased the pain to be able to say that he deserved what he got. But it is not the case. There is no proof of anything. So the most terrible thing for a mother is to have her child, who she has rocked and raised, and worked for 25 years so that he becomes a man, someone comes and takes him and says they are going to lock him away for the rest of his life. That I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It’s the worst thing that can happen. (40.38) If he is locked away all his life then a part of me is locked up with him. They are not only locking him away, they are also locking away half of my heart, because he is half of me, he is my son, and I love him, whether he did it, or didn’t do it, whether he is guilty or not guilty, he is my son and I love him (41.02)
41.24Me, no for me, all is ruined, all is destroyed. I am still standing because I have to be, because I have my grand children , my daughters, but my life has no reason, not like before. Things are…I don’t look at things in the same way as before. I don’t live like before. And the only thing I can say is that I know that my son is going to be locked away for the rest of his life and that hurts me so badly. Terribly. (42.15) I can’t say that my life is not destroyed. It is ruined. ….(42.34) It is hard because there is nothing which can console me. If he deserves it then he has to pay. He has to pay because he was in association with terror groups. I agree. 25 years, 20 years, 30 years for association OK, but from that to lock him away for the rest of his life for things he hasn’t done, because he said “I want the destruction of the Jews and the destruction of the Americans” . But that doesn’t merit a life sentence or the death penalty. It is too high a price to pay. It’s not possible. It is unjust. And me, what am I going to do now? The only thing I can do, I want to carry on defending injustices with the families of the victims in America. They have asked me to and I will do it with them. They are destroyed because they have lost someone. I am also destroyed because of this injustice and I want to defend…if I can tell people to be careful, do this and don’t do that, if I can do it then I will. (43.53)
44.30I want to tell him that I love him, and whatever they accuse him of, whether he did it or not, he is still my son and I love him. I can’t give him advice because I don’t know what he has or hasn’t done. All I ask is that he be judged for what he has done. I am sure and certain that the Judge is a woman who is capable of seeking the truth and doing the right thing. But I can’t say the same about the Prosecutor, I don’t trust him. (45.14)
45.58 – 47.08She talks directly to her son.  
 She then discusses a photo of Muslim women on the bench and says that her son wanted her to be like that as he got older but that she couldn’t because she had to work if they were to eat.

End of CAM 1 20.07 54.52 M2

In Aicha’s house.

0.58(Indicates photo) : That one, it’s his daughter, she died too. These are the parents of the victims. (1.13)
2.07It is very emotional, it is very strong and very difficult. The Americans who were touched by the attacks they are more generous and kinder, they understand things better, here in France, where people weren’t affected, they condemn Zacarias already before his trial, although there is nothing to accuse him of. (2.57)
 This is the mother of a man who died. There is no aggression at all.  The lady there, we hugged as we said goodbye, her sister died in the attacks.
3.27This one, his daughter died on 9/11, we are together, those are her parents. They is no aggression, no nastiness [from them] they just want to know the truth. They say that they want to see proof, because the American government has portrayed Zacarias as a monster, yet in the file on him there is nothing at all. So now the families of the victims they want the TRUTH. (4.06) They do not want to hear that Zacarias is guilty and that is all. They want the truth.
4.18I went to their houses, I ate with them,  I slept, I talked with them, and they are very generous people, who defend Freedom, Equality and are against injustice. They want to pardon, they don’t want revenge.
4.54The emotion was strong, it is there in English, 40 people all crying.  It is very strong.
5.26Why would I feel guilty? What has he done Zacarias? What action? That is precisely what the families say. If he has done something then show us the proof. No. They have to show what he did. He has spoken, yes. He has said that he is a member of Al Qaida, yes. He is an Islamist, yes. But he has committed no crime anywhere, he has done nothing. We are going to condemn a man because he is an Islamist, because he has spoken out. But actions, there are no actions, he has done nothing.  I do not feel guilty for anything. (6.10) I am sorry that my son is a member of Al Qaida, or an Islamist. I am sorry, I would have preferred that my son defend Islam with words, and not by joining these movements to destroy. But my son is not 14, he is 37 (6.42). But to say that my son is guilty of September 11th is not true. The proof is that the witnesses who have testified have not been accepted because they what they said was rubbish.  (7.00)
 He is a French child but he was never accepted in France. He had a lot of problems with certain French people. He was French but the Maghrebi population has never really been considered as French.
7.42You saw the riots that there were in the suburbs of Paris, when my son joined that movement there was a problem, years and years of problems. And now, it is coming out. When the pain is too bad, all the time, one day things explode. And that is what happened in France. And what happened to my son’s generation.(8.19)
8.20Even the lawyers, if they want to say that Zacarias, when he was small, true he didn’t have a father, its true, the truth is that there were a lot of problems, there was no father [answers phone]

Last one (in the garden.)

 When I do that [garden] I try to forget, to forget the problems.
1.25FBI…In 2001 when there was the problem, the DST the FBI asked why Tango, he’s called Tango, I bought it in 1999 he’s called Tango. After, it was the electronic box of Zacarias, Tango Tango. I didn’t understand…[and me neither!]
3.16It does me good to garden, or to sew. I think about that and not about the problems of Zacarias. But I always think of him, always. When I do something, I think about what I am doing but Zacarias is always in my head and my heart, and when I think that he will be sentenced to life imprisonment for things that he has not done, it is hard for me. All my life I will have to live with that. (4.11)
4.40For him to be sentenced to death, or life imprisonment, there have to be actions. He has to have killed someone or have done something. But he had done nothing. He is an Islamist and that’s all. But unfortunately he has pleaded guilty because he is fed up. He knows that if he doesn’t plead guilty he will never get out. He knows that the Americans want someone to be found guilty, they want a scapegoat. If he hadn’t pleaded guilty there would never have been a trial. And that is what the families of the victims say too. They say that they want the truth (5.24) All the people that I met, that I saw and spoke to, and that I will see again, we’re going to do a lot of things together, me and them, they say that they want the truth. The American government doesn’t want the truth. They want someone to be found guilty and that’s all. It’s like the WMD in Iraq. There are no WMD in Iraq. They went because of oil and that’s all. It was for oil, not for Freedom and Equality, not at all, it’s not true. Freedom, the Iraqis don’t have anything to eat now, they don’t have any petrol for their cars, although it is a petrol producing nation…(6.34)
8.46The morning, it was 8am…
9.17Because he is my son, because I love him, because he is accused of things for which I see no proof, they say that he is responsible for the attacks on NY, it isn’t true. They call him the 21st member, it’s not true, they say he was the organiser of the attacks, it isn’t true. I want the truth. (9.58)
10.34These are the photos of New Orleans, in America. Hurricane Katrina….
11.29It is a tragedy for all the family. Not just for Zacarias, for his sisters, for me, for my grand children. It is hard for us because there are those who understand, who try and understand and find out the truth and then there are those who understand nothing, for whom Zacarias is a terrorist. People who don’t understand, I have problems with people who don’t understand anything. (12.24)
12.27I’m not inside his head, I have no idea. Maybe the daily racism, maybe the lack of a father, a lot of things. The answer is with Zacarias, it is not with me. There is not only Zacarias. In all Europe, in England there are lots like Zacarias, in Belgium, in France, in the whole world, there are a lot of people like Zacarias. The Muslim world, the Muslim leaders they have let themselves be governed by the Europeans, by the Americans. People of my age or older, maybe they didn’t understand. There is a new generation which has understood that it is not right that the Americans, the Europeans, they go to underdeveloped countries, take their wealth and leave the people to die of hunger. (14.02) There is a big problem in the Muslim world, and the Europeans and Americans have to understand that they have to stop, they have to be fair, they have to let people live, they have to share the riches. Lots of things. The young want that. (14.29) Me, I worked to live, I never asked for help from anyone but the young who are born in Europe they want to be like Europeans. (14.40)
15.04Whether he is condemned to death or to life imprisonment, for me it is the same.(15.09)
16.14For me it is the same, I tell you. It is worse to be sentenced to life imprisonment than to be executed. Its worse. (16.27) This is why I say that I don’t want to do interviews like this, it is too complicated.
 For me, to condemn him to life imprisonment is worse than a death sentence, because he has done nothing wrong. It is worse to condemn him to life in prison than to death, because we are all going to die once. But to be locked up from 37 years old to when he dies for things he hasn’t done, that is the worst thing you can do to someone. (17.12) If he had killed someone, I would understand, if he had done the terrorist attacks I would understand, but he did nothing, he has spoken that’s all (17.22) The Americans need a guilty party, they need a scapegoat. The Prosecutor has no one to show that he has done his job, that he has found someone, he found Zacarias, he was in prison before the attacks, 3 ½  weeks before the attacks (17.45). So as the American people say, we want the truth, and me too, I want the truth. And to condemn my son to life imprisonment for things he hasn’t done is not justice. It’s a blind justice. It’s like in 54, the Americans did the same, they accused a couple…[she gets up] (18.22)
18.32The same story, Zacarias and these people, it’s the same story. People found guilty, who had done nothing. That’s the boy, that is the story. The son of these people who were wrongly found guilty, as ideal guilty parties. He wrote, for me, I met the son, he gave me this book. (19.09) It was in 54, 1954, the Americans did the same.
19.31For me, for my family, life is hard, it’s finished. Half of me is in prison with Zacarias. Half of me. I am here, but half of my heart is with Zacarias, every day. When I look at my breakfast I know that Zacarias will never have the same thing.(20.01)
20.13That is the daughter of the person who wrote the book. And that also is for me. It’s the daughter. The father and the son. This is against the legal system. The blind justice. (20.38) In America, I only trust the judge. But the American government is blind. Its like that….it snatches, that’s all.(21.10)
 Because it’s my son, and I love him. That smile. I might never see it again. That smile there. I might never see it again.  (22.19) It’s tough, really tough.
22.45With a child in prison all his life. It’s hard. Justice doesn’t exist.
23.02What have they done to you?
24.53.It’s yesterday, the 20th. Yesterday. OK. Zacarias. It’s the electric belt, The media never mention it. The electric belt, they send him electric shocks. Everyone thinks that he is fat. He isn’t fat. It is the electric belt under his clothes.
25.47Yes torture. Psychological and physical torture with the electric belt. Zacarias has swollen hands because when he was small, he was 14 or 15, he had problems with arthritis. Normally he should take care of himself, eat lots of fish, but as now he is in prison he is swollen, all his fingers are swollen.
26.31[names her children] In 1985
28.03At the sewing machine – talking about sewing, and that she worked as a seamstress as well as at France Telecom and she also made Moroccan cakes for a shop. She did this to earn pocket money for the children.


 (As she looks at photos:)
That one, it’s his daughter, she died too. These are the parents of the victims. (1.13)
It is very emotional, it is very strong and very difficult. The Americans who were touched by the attacks they are more generous and kinder, they understand things better, here in France, where people weren’t affected, they condemn Zacarias already before his trial, although there is nothing to accuse him of. (2.57)
This is the mother of a man who died. There is no aggression at all.  The lady there, we hugged as we said goodbye, her sister died in the attacks.
This one, his daughter died on 9/11, we are together, those are her parents. They is no aggression, no nastiness [from them] they just want to know the truth. They say that they want to see proof, because the American government has portrayed Zacarias as a monster, yet in the file on him there is nothing at all. So now the families of the victims they want the TRUTH. (4.06)

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